Are Product Camps Missing the Mark?
In the past twelve months, I’ve attended several camps located in Minneapolis, Atlanta, Seattle and Silicon Valley. There’s been a lot of energy, enthusiasm and effort put into making the product camps happen. Kudos to the volunteers, sponsors and those bringing ideas to share.
“What were you hoping for” I ask? I’ve heard:
- Elements of a good business case
- Effective upward communication (with executives)
- Techniques for influencing product strategy
- Building Product Marketing roadmaps
In a conversation this week with Tom Grant, Senior Analyst at Forrester Research and champion of Product Management he asked me, “What were your impressions of the recent Product Camp?”
My response? While product camps are serving a wide audience from MBA candidates, to new product managers, to senior leaders guiding product marketing, we are not staying true to the spirit of open space or unconference formats. And yes, we aren’t bringing the strategic content.
If you attended the first Silicon Valley product camp (in 2008), it was filled with variety open discussions, dialogue, panel sessions and impromptu gatherings where topics of interest were surfaced. I believe we’ve lost the spontaneity and variety. Take a look at the sessions from 2009, what do you see? Variety and topics that offer almost all personas a day filled with new ideas and learning.
I recall other P-Camps where topics such as Agile, Product Management 101, Strategy and Product Marketing were well represented. What’s happened?
I’m not sure. Have we lost the unconference tenants? Do we need to revisit a conference format works for any type of persona? Do we need leadership oriented product camps?
I have some thoughts, but I’d like to hear yours.
It’s my opinion that we need to get back to the basics and revisit the true unconference format. Perhaps we suspend the advance voting or create categories of areas that meet the needs of a broader audience.
Might I recommend that each product camp organization conduct a retrospective and then offer some ideas to address the issues.
At the end of the day, I will continue to attend product camps when I can, and volunteer my time. However, as a community we’re missing the mark. If we are to continue to build value in our profession and in the organizations we work, we need to address this.
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Jim –
Beyond the unconference feel that is really hard to keep as you grow (trust me, we’ve been resisting the advance voting request / keynote presentation for now 3 years in Austin), I think the bigger challenge is to continously attract some new participants that are willing (and have the skills) to deliver some really good presentations on the PM/PMM topics – whether at an expert or entry level.
- Bertrand
Bertrand – Thanks for the comments. I agree. As someone who’s participated and volunteered, getting “new blood” to contribute is often difficult. What methods has Austin used to “market” new attendees and contributors?
Jim –
A lot has to do with networking and reaching out to people that you know would be great speakers / moderators. At the last ProductCamp Austin, the session / presenter that got the most vote was someone I met through my professional work and invited to attend/present (if voted) at ProductCamp.
It also has a lot to do with putting together a quality event with a clear list of session categories for people to submit topics.
Ultimately what continues to make ProductCamp Austin such a success is that we’ve reached a critical mass of participants and we’ve sticked to what makes ProductCamp such a great experience in particular the unconference experience.
- Bertrand
When I proposed and gave presentations that were clearly categorized as “advanced,” I ended up with people wanting introductory content. When I went to something I though would be interesting, it too was introductory. Voting with your feet doesn’t solve this problem. I actually have a hard time finding sessions to attend.
David – Thanks for your insights and comments. While voting with your feet gives you an option, how do PCamp leaders refine and seek new content and contribution? Do unconferences have “post event” surveys?
I’ve only done the one so I have but a single data point. With over 600 attendees, i don’t believe it’s possible for SVPCamp to go back to its roots. I do believe a little structure can help unstructure it in a big way. For instance, have preset categories of PM strategy, PMM Strategy, PM nuts n bolts, PMM nuts n bolts, etc. but also have the actual sessions voted on the day.
I would also just add several general Q&A sessions as I had several people ask me things like, “How do I kill a product?” and others that were good questions but didn’t fit with any session.
I agree, though, that something was missing. I’ll roll up my sleeves and help out and attend several more but the onus is on all attendees to put in more than what I saw.
Tim – Thanks for commenting. I agree that we should consider categories focused on Product Management, Product Marketing and perhaps Marketing personas. Use the categories you’ve suggested and build from there.
As a person whose attended one, I appreciate your willingness to “roll up your sleeves.” I
I’ve been to 5 ProductCamps — 3 in Toronto which I helped organize, as well as one in NY (in the fall) and the recent camp in Boston. I spoke at all of them.
Given the variation in the size of events (100-1000 attendees) and the expertise available to deliver presentations, it’s hard to generalize, but I will.
The larger locales (i.e. Bay Area, Austin) should have enough of a talent pool to draw on to address a broad set of roles, levels of experience etc.
In Toronto (a much smaller market), based on feedback from our second event, we decided to do a particularly “un-unconference” thing and decide on the agenda in advance. Online voting was used as a guide, but not a determiner of the content. And we published the agenda on the Wednesday before the event. That event also received the best attendee feedback of any of our events.
Speakers wanted to know beforehand if they were speaking so they could prepare. Attendees wanted to know the day’s agenda so they could plan accordingly. We also had specific tracks based on feedback from our previous attendees. e.g. a PM 101 track and an Advanced topic track to help address needs of a diverse audience.
In the end, each camp should (in theory) use the PM/PMM skills that we all know so well, and deliver a product that meets the needs of its customers. Just because it’s a free event and has the word “Camp” in it, doesn’t mean rigid devotion to a single way of creating and delivering the product (camp).
Saeed
Saeed – great insight and thoughts. Thanks for commenting.
I think it is important not to be dogmatic about the whole unconference concept. At the end of the day OpenSpaces / camp / unconference style meetups were born to solve a particular problem and to provide value for attendees. If we think we can get better value by inspect/adapt then let’s do it!
It reminds me of the old days of extreme programming. Everyone used to follow Kent Beck’s book to the letter – even to the point of building bad software. Eventually he published a second book saying “no I didn’t mean that, start out this way then adapt it to whatever works for you’.
@jim_holland makes a point: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? – new post for #prodmgmt #prodmktg & #leadership http://wp.me/pXBON-2r3
@jidoctor: @jim_holland I commented on "Are Product Camps Missing the Mark?", http://wp.me/pXBON-2r3 #prodmgmt #prodmktg & #leadership
I am wholly unqualified to comment, but that has never stopped me.
I live in an area that as far as I know has no easily accessible Pcamp (Tucson, AZ), and the ones that are interesting are too far away to drive to (SV and Austin). Sure, I could host one, but the 4 of us PM’s local to here already know each other, and meet for drinks, and bench racing* sessions frequently
.
However, one of the points made by Saed above gives me a clue as to the apparent lack of cohesiveness. The size range of attendees, from 100 up to 1000. Clearly, the larger events have reached a critical mass where the unconference concept just isn’t going to work. The chaos, and uncertainty will drive away both presenters as well as attendees, and growth in size will begin to reverse.
Additionally, even in a group of 1000, that is a pretty small organization to have the star filled gazes of complete newbies, to gristled industry veterans (crusty old salts like myself) all find sessions that make their day worthwhile.
Perhaps it is time to begin consolidating to an annual meeting, and begin to go from unconference to conference? To have tracks that apply to Product Management, Product Marketing, and segment by beginner and advanced? To elevate it above a local gathering, into a formal organization, akin to that the project management community has?
Then perhaps, the event will have an air of Continuing Education, and I will be able to justify the trip as part of the (almost never used) training budget.
Of course, this could be completely antithetical to the whole movement.
As a member of many professional societies (ASME, ASPE, SPIE and a few others), to attain and maintain a critical mass takes organization, and a fair amount of work, more than a part time/spare time commitment. However all of them began a lot like the Pcamps are today.
*Bench Racing – A serious bullshitting session after a day of motorcycle racing. Usually the telling of tall tales, near misses, and heroic saves.
Mr. Anderson – Thanks for the thought provoking and Bench Racing ideas. Hopefully, the larger PCamp organizations will read the comments and then adjust accordingly. As a senior PM, would you attend an annual conference? Would you attend a conference focused at senior product management and product marketing folks?
BTW – meeting with 4 local PMs can be as enlightening and rewarding as the larger groups. I have lived in a small market (Boise) where there are enough PMs/PMMs, but normally there are a dozen of us that enjoy a good Bench Racing anytime.
Perhaps I should change my moniker to Neo…
A larger, more formal event with more structure would likely make it worth investing the time and effort to attend.
If there were small events closer (aka driving distance) I would go to them too, as I love talking about my profession and sharing experiences.
As to targeting solely at senior PM and PMk folks, that is toughs to say. My company had such an event recently, about 90 PM/PMk people, the leaders and most senior, and I think that there was not much real value at the level of the attendees. Of course, being part of the same company might be part of the issue in this case.
I think that a mixed group is important to set up mentoring and tutoring opportunities for the early or mid career PM’s to grow, yet provide a creative outlet for the senior team as well.
Crap, it almost sounds like I am volunteering for some planning for such an evolution…
Hmm, I could take you up on that for Rocky Mountain ProductCamp. The trip is only 822 scenic miles. You could easily do that in a weekend. (I think I have in the past) Think about if for early November.
Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? – a new post for #prodmgmt #prodmktg and #leadership to consider. http://wp.me/pXBON-2r3
Jim,
You seem to be saying two things here. One is the apparent departure from the unconference format. Can you provide some specifics as to what you mean?
The other is the lack of strategic and leadership oriented topics. From my understanding of the unconference format, it’s the community itself that proposes the topics and determines which ones they want to attend. If the community is voting for the more tactical and 101 type topics, maybe that’s what they’re really interested in?
I’d be interested in knowing what other PCamps are doing to attract senior ProdMgmt and ProdMktg leaders. These folks would be better equipped to conduct these strategic and leadership type sessions, no?
I’m still learning… appreciate any insights!
cheers,
shardul
Shardul – I appreciate your comments. I don’t think I was saying two things as much as it appears to me that when Product Camps grow (and we hope they will), the open space/unconference model may not be effective.
I agree the product camps survive and thrive when a wide range of people contribute. I wonder if schedules, weekend commitments and business commitments impact senior people from contributing often.
Regards,
Jim
Jim,
As one who is planning to attend his first session – ProductCampDC this weekend.
http://www.meetup.com/ProductCampDC/
I can’t comment on what has happened in the past. I’m excited about what we’ll do this weekend.
I’m a little confused by your question. According to http://www.co-intelligence.org/P-Openspace.html – 1) Whoever comes is the right people.
2) Whatever happens is the only thing that could have.
3) Whenever it starts is the right time.
4) When it is over it is over.
How is it possible to be “doing it wrong?”
On the other hand, if folks want sessions that are not offered, why not start them?
The problem with leadership and strategy is that the higher you go, the greater the ambiguity you face. Perhaps the issue is that those who are unsatisfied are facing ambiguity in their work, have uncertainty about it, and are seeking direction as to the “right” way to go?
If so, I’d submit that it’s time to take a lesson from Mrs. Frizzle from The Magic Schoolbus. “Take chances. Make mistakes. Get dirty.” The best way to learn is from analyzing our own errors, and the second best is to analyze the errors of others. Go for it!
I’ve proposed a session for this weekend “Introducing product management at a startup.” We’ll see what kind of traction we get from that….
Thanks for the post.
Tom
Tom – Congratulations on attending your first PCamp and for contributing. This is what the community at large needs (perhaps requires). I like your thoughts that the “higher you go, the greater the ambiguity.”
That’s why product camps are in place. To provide an avenue for senior people to clear out some of the ambiguity with new ideas and experiences shared by peers.
Good luck on the session, it’s a great topic that really needed.
Jim
Great thoughts and questions Jim,
As you know I have long felt that ProductCamps in general (and especially ours in Atlanta #bias) are fantastic events and there is really no better way to learn with, network with and build relationships with PM/PMM peers in our own community and around the world.
I am also consistently dissatisfied with the actual events (including Atlanta!). My dissatisfaction does come from the same place as yours, but I don’t think I’m as bleak as you seem to be feeling.
Our nature is to be dissatisfied with the status quo. That’s why we do what we do! We’d probably stink as PMs if we weren’t looking for how we could “do it better.”
For the next two years, I’m planning to focus on building up thought leadership in the Atlanta market. We’ve got a strong organizing committee here and I’ll be able to focus on getting more leaders involved to come teach what they know…working months out ahead of the actual event to develop sessions and lead them in small settings on an ongoing basis, so that ProductCamps will become a culmination of months of preparation, rather than a last minute scramble to pull something together that may or may not “hit the mark.”
But even if that doesn’t happen, ProductCamp is still amazing…not for the networking and learning that happens on the day of the event, but for the relationships that are formed between those who make it happen. I’ve created a lot of relationships and have learned a lot from my peers through ProductCamp. And most of that learning comes from conversations with you, Jennifer Doctor, Paul Young, John Peltier, Jared Smith, Kevin O’Malley and the like.
I could write more, but then that would be like writing a blog post, and we all know I don’t ever get around to that.
Jason – As someone who’s attended the Atlanta Product Camp, I agree that yours and others are “amazing” and provide a platform for product management and product marketing people never seen before.
I know organizing committees (all volunteer) bust their butts to incorporate change and focus on areas that their participants and geographies require.
Keep up the good work. We’ll continue refining formats, topics and areas to meet our professions goals. Thanks for the positive feedback!
Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? – a new post for #prodmgmt #prodmktg and #leadership. http://wp.me/pXBON-2r3
I don’t have the time that Jason Brett seems to have to compose a response, however I will contribute this: I believe the early announcement of session topics is the most effective tactic I’ve seen for driving session submissions. I seem to recall from my Austin experience (Bertrand, et al, correct me if I’m off base) that product strategy was a topic that rated highly in surveys. I would suggest focusing those recruiting the presenters to “find out” what topic areas people in a given market want–perhaps at time of sign-up–and then recruit sessions to fill those buckets.
Thanks for the thought-provoking post, Jim!
John – Thanks for the comments. I agree with your suggestions and propose that each PCamp organization should look closely at their participants and prior to upcoming events, inquire about categories, topics and seek to understand more about the multiple personas that attend.
I wonder how many PCamp’s capture “live” feedback and do retrospectives that include survey feedback. That may narrow the gap and refine the formats.
Jim
I’ve attended and led sessions at each of the 4 productcamps in Boston over the last 2 years. And I headed up the marketing effort for our most recent PCamp Boston earlier this month (http://www.ProductCampBoston.org). While I’ve only attended PCamp Boston, I’ve attended several other unconferences and have perused the topics from other PCamps. Most PCamps cover the same types of product management topics. I agree that we could use more advanced topics. And I think we should also go beyond product management to include more on product marketing to bring in more of those folks and expand the horizons of product managers.
Having been closely involved in PCamp, and having attended the ~700-attendee BarCamp Boston unconference also in April, I think you really can have the best of all worlds:
To attract quality content, you do need to have some organized sessions. I.e., you’re going to get expert speakers who know their subject, speak on it widely, and come with prepared presentations.
But we also need to encourage anyone to lead a discussion – especially when they DON’T know the answer. For example, someone at PCamp Boston decided he wanted to learn more about SaaS so he ran a SaaS panel. He learned as he moderated the session. Talk about “owning” the PCamp experience!
I’ve had success leading interactive discussions on social media and startup marketing. I’ve also led prepared sessions. Unlike many speakers, I deliver a different, although related, presentation each time so that attendees really learn something new.
The key: ensuring a mix of prepared presentations along with interactive discussions. Attendees definitely benefit from both. We need to get input on topics of interest (social media? SaaS? Startups) in advance and during the event, and then encourage more attendees to lead interactive discussions, even (and especially) when they’re not experts.
I’d be glad to discuss further – ping me at http://www.twitter.com/SteveRobins
Steve
I attended the recent Boston ProductCamp and thought it was a pretty good event, and there definitely were a mix of topics from Product Management, Product Marketing, UX etc. Wasn’t keen on the vendor/sponsor pitches though.
Otherwise, a really good event with a lot of sessions, large and small.
I think that having a mix of formats and providing people with different ways to participate is key. At our Toronto ProductCamp last year, we had one session that was filled with a number of “5 Minute Talks”. We modeled it after the Ignite format, held people to 5 minutes (give or take a bit) and weren’t strict about the number of slides.
We had many people propose talks and in the end had 8 speakers in that session each sharing some knowledge. I thought it was the best session of the day because of the variety of topics and the fact that most, if not all, of these people would not have committed to leading a full session, but were up for a short talk.
We’ll definitely do that again at our next event.
Saeed
Saeed,
I agree that there needs to be a mixed format to attract and retain a variety of experience. I wonder if Product Camps should consider using categories or tracks as I’ve experienced in the past? Each area (geo) should consider their market and look at what’s required. Also, I like the non-PCamp activities that other areas are trying Austin and Rocky Mountain offer other meetings to dive deeper into areas and they appear as working sessions and product management “hack-a-thons.”
At our last ProductCamp, we had tracks, 5 minute talks, a keynote speaker, and a predefined agenda published in advance of the actual event. These were all new as compared to the event before that one, and all based on feedback we received (explicit and implicit).
Each locale should assess what is best for their attendees. And by the way, Toronto is a really big Camp city with DemoCamps, various other BarCamp events, even a TransitCamp, so the unconference is not something new here, but what we found with our attendees was a mix of those who wanted structure and those who didn’t, those who wanted advance topics and those who didn’t. We tried to address those needs where we could.
I’d like to second John P’s request for a survey or some other aid for assessing interest. As a prospective speaker, I’d love to have attendees request topics when they sign up. That way, I can prepare a presentation that will address the audiences’ most pressing concerns–rather one that I believe they’ll find useful or one I enjoy giving.
By the way, I’ve been to unconferences with prepared topics and ones with just discussions and believe that a mix is best. The first one I went to was totally unstructured (not a Product Camp) and participants spent the day wandering from session to session looking for valuable content.
Barbara – Thanks for the comments. I believe we’re on to some great ideas that Product Camps can implement and try to extend the experience for participants, contributors and volunteers.
Jim, I read your post earlier today and spent some time digesting it because as a PCamp organizer I want a quality experience personally as well as for the attendees. It is also a question RMPcamp is wrestling with since we just has our second event last night.
Having attended PCamps at Austin and SiliconValley and starting RockyMountain ProductCamp I have seen both sides of what I will call a multifaceted issue. (problem implies it is broken, issue IMO, means it can be improved)
On the attendee side you have the following:
>> Worthwhile content – if I am giving up my time, I would like to get something for it. To Tim’s point though, that onus is on me as an attendee. Personally, the more involved I get the more I get out of it. Unfortunately, that’s not for everyone nor can you have 500 presenters.
>> ProductCamp’s role in the community – is this the sole function to gather product people or are there other organizations (PDMA, BMA, AMA, SVPMA etc.) How do the conversations that are started maintain momentum during the interim between PCamps? Austin does a great job of this which is probably why their PCamp flows nicely.
>> Group chaos –
+ Dissemination of information gets tough when you get a crowd. This is why RMPCamp opted to at least get the morning sessions set beforehand. This is probably the case for other camps as well.
+ As the number of people you are trying to organize increases the complexity is squared. Think of the children’s game of pass it down the line. Nobody hears what exactly was said.
From an organizer’s perspective:
>> Worthwhile experience for the attendee – are the rooms well marked, do people know where the sessions are, have the presenters showed up for their session, etc.
>> Smooth flow for the day – ease of registration, breakfast, lunch, coffee, networking, etc.
> How to adequately address the attendee’s concerns above so that the day is memorable enough to not only come again but bring others
Austin and Silicon Valley have a good problem of a large attendee base. Critical mass has been achieved now it is minor refinements IMO. My take on the 2011 SV Pcamp was that in certain sessions the size of the audience may have squelched the use of 2 feet and the dialogue. Once you get over about 40 people in a session group shyness comes into play. It is also hard when only the presenter has a microphone to have a dialogue among many.
The other phenomenon we observed here at RMPcamp and have seen at other camp’s was the teacher-student muscle memory is still fresh. Put people in a room with someone and a power point presentation and the audience switches to sponge mode. The room setup also facilitates this. Row seating with a table and speaker up front is hard for a conversation because it is difficult to interact with someone who may be behind you.
After RMPcamp we did an in person debrief and got a lot of feedback. We also sent out a survey that provided a little. Based on what we saw and heard we are looking at minor modifications to our next event. Things like:
>> Dedicated Powerpoint and No Powerpoint sessions (Thinking along the lines of 40/60 breakdown)
>> Variable length tracks.
+ Some attendees want to get deep on a topic so we’ll have a double length session period.
+ Other sessions may be multiple quarter or half length sessions organized around a theme (e.g. Agile) where the presenter’s skim along the top followed by a panel for deeper Q&A by the audience
+ “Bullpen” session where any topic can be teed up and see where the conversation goes
We’ll also be trying to educate the future presenters more on what works and what the attendees would like. Using the benefit of RMPCamp and past SV/Austin session knowledge I coaxed my session into a dialogue. I could have just as easily clicked through slides and wasted everyone’s time. PCamp novices need this knowledge too.
I think the content is what the content is and that is keeping with the spirit of the OpenSpace and Unconference formats. If the leadership topics are not there it is either because they were not proposed or the attendee base didn’t see the value compared to everything else that was offered.
So in answer to your question Jim, are PCamp’s missing the mark? No, but there is room for improvement based on a particular market’s needs.
Len – I appreciate the insight and detailed response. This incapsulates a great range of activities that others are doing and trying. These comments and the others should be read and absorbed by PCamp orgs as a way to reach the masses and keep them engaged and coming back.
Thanks!
I’m not going to let a ProductCamp post go by without chiming in!!!
I think the question originally posed is wrong. ProductCamp can’t, by definition, miss the mark, because it is by and for the people who put it on. The onus is on the participants to change it if it isn’t meeting their needs. If we want to see more advanced topics, we need to offer them ourselves, or volunteer to recruit people who will offer them. What we’re seeing today with many of the same Product Management 101 topics repeated over-and-over is that the market of product managers coming to camp wants to hear these topics. I also see the growth in ProductCamps worldwide as a sign of huge success and validation in both the format and content overall. Tweaks are needed, but we’re talking knobs and dials, not major changes.
If you look at the history of ProductCamp, it was inspired by BarCamp and the unconference format, but that doesn’t mean we’ve stuck 100% to those ideals. Some of them just aren’t practical for good presentation and discussion of product management and marketing topics. As Jason says above, having participants think up and offer sessions on the day-of an event is not very viable for ProductCamp, IMHO.
In Austin, we’ve pulled on lots of different levers to maintain a good experience. We’ve held steadfast to day-of voting for ALL sessions, even though that puts immense pressure on the schedule assembly team in the morning. We’ve also really ramped up our recruitment of specific types of sessions: certain topic areas as requested by the participants, and non-traditional sessions like roundtables and workshops to give variety other than the standard death by powerpoint. We’ve learned to over-communicate to presenters using powerpoint that they need to be very thoughtful and limited in the number of slides they use. It’s made a difference.
I worry that there is a bifurcation in the participants at ProductCamp: the do-ers and the takers. There is a “presenter-class” of professional speakers, consultants, and thought leaders who are going from camp to camp presenting their topics. Then there are the people who just show up and sponge, to take Larry’s word. Sponges are violating the first rule of ProductCamp, which is that there are no passive attendees, only participants. I worry when I see the same people presenting at camps over and over, and less new people coming in. As a community, we must find a way to break this cycle and get the participants, even first timers, more involved in the camp. I was particularly impressed by Rocky Mountain’s use of younger people like students as volunteers – they might not have felt comfortable presenting, but they definitely added value to the camp and participated in other ways.
My concerns for ProductCamp’s next steps are different. ProductCamp, based in large parts to the efforts of SV, Austin, Boston and many of the other early adopters, has established a brand presence in the market. That is awesome – I believe that steps need to be taken to put some leadership around that brand and help guide new entrants to the ProductCamp market as to what ProductCamp is and is not. Regional and cultural variations will persist, but the core experience of ProductCamp should be one where you know what to expect when you decide to go (e.g. I was contacted by a corporation who wanted to put on a private ProductCamp a few months ago, and had to redirect their efforts). If you’re a ProductCamp leader (you know who you are!), you’ll be hearing more from me on this soon.
Thanks for the post, great discussion.
Paul – Thanks for chiming in. My concerns is like yours, “Product Camp, based in large parts to the efforts of SV, Austin, Boston and many other early adopters, has established presence in the market.” Now that we have that presence, are we taking advantage by elevating each other, sharing leadership principles and creating a brand that will sustain itself.
Love to hear more as you have time.
Jim
One of those bad boys is mine! RT @Jim_Holland: 20+ comments on "Are Product Camps Missing the Mark?" http://t.co/wNfqhyJ
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RT @onpm: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? http://bit.ly/ecgPgI <— No – but do need more interactive discussions.
Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? – a new post for #prodmgmt #prodmktg and #leadership to consider. http://t.co/Rw2LBc0
Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? – a post for #prodmgmt #prodmktg to consider. http://t.co/Rw2LBc0. Love seeing the original 2008 sign.
RT @AgileProductMgr: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? – a post for #prodmgmt #prodmktg to consider. http://t.co/Rw2LBc0. Love seeing …
Great to have Jim (and the broader PM community) ask hard questions and drive important discussions. A few upbeat thoughts:
- Five years ago, there were no Product Camps. We (all) have created a valuable, viable and exciting status quo that’s ready to evolve.
- I’ve passed SV PCamp along to a fresh set of hands/eyes/brains, hoping we’ll get some fresh ideas here. Changing leadership is a good way to open ourselves up to change.
- Most PMs/PMMs lack social networking opportunities to get with their own kind. It’s usually tagging along with the Dev team or Mktg outing, or networking within your company. I love meeting my cross-company cohort.
- IMO, we did have more of a split between speakers and less-participative attendees at SVPC11. I like various proposals above (half of sessions are are PPT-free, enforce a minimum number of panels, track into advanced/intro sessions). One challenge: are there enough presenters/panelists for each narrow segment to provide good stuff?
- Big annual events (like ours) tend to be major logistical efforts and demand large volunteer groups (20+ folks). I’d encourage more frequent/smaller events that give more time for socializing and new presenters. [Here in SV, the SVPMA also provides a monthly venue for PM/PMM folks...]
- There’s no legal ownership here. If you want to create a different kind of event, gather a group and throw it. If folks enjoy it and want more, you’ve made your own variation on the theme.
Rich
Rich – As the originator and catalyst of Product Management camps, I appreciate your insights and experience. I can’t imagine where we’d all be without a product camps and outlets such as social media to push and pull our profession along.
Thanks!
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RT @Jim_Holland: WOW! The comments continue – "Are Product Camps Missing the Mark" http://t.co/wNfqhyJ. I hope #PCamp teams read/consume …
RT @onpm: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? #prodmgmt #prodmktg http://bit.ly/jGf992 added my 2c
RT @onpm: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? #prodmgmt #prodmktg http://bit.ly/jGf992 added my 2c
RT @onpm: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? #prodmgmt #prodmktg http://bit.ly/jGf992 added my 2c
Great post, Jim! Enjoyed reading all the comments.
Here are my thoughts – a big determinant of the topics that are discussed in a ProductCamp is really the participant size. If it’s a big PM hotbed like SVA, Austin or Boston, you can draw a wide range of speakers to speak on vast set of topics. The audience can self select where they want to go and vote with their feet in true ProductCamp style. And the process can be iterated again and again. Less populous (as in PMs) ProductCamps will have to figure out ways to make it interesting and sustaining.
All things considered, ProductCamps do something that no other conferences do – free PM networking, free exchange of ideas however good or bad, and an opportunity for professional development. Eventually the camps will fit into a bell curve, with some really good performing ones (the outliers) and lots of average camps.
The key is to deliver ProductCamp itself as a great product. I can think of three things to make it happen – one, have a kick ass organizing team, two, encourage/have outreach programs to get great speakers and content, and three – move to Austin.
Austin ProductCamps (speaking for where I live) have been a great experience for me and I hope it will continue to be an outlier.
-Prabhakar
@PGopalan
@jim_holland: my response http://bit.ly/jgpthL to your: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? http://wp.me/pXBON-2r3 post
Ok, big surprise that I have something to say here! First of all, thanks for the post and starting the discussion. More than anything, I think the post and comments challenge the status quo and keep us all from becoming stale.
I think we are very fortunate in Atlanta to have so many product mangers and product marketing professionals that have a strong desire to grow and to help others grow in the profession. As well as technology companies who understand the value (for the most part) of the respective role(s).
For Atlanta, in many ways I feel that it started several years ago with Scott Johnson, founder of our product management society and has continued with many strong leaders that have dedicated countless hours to providing education and networking for our profession through this society. Now we have a Jason Brett and Product Camp Atlanta to push us even more!
What I seem to get from the post and comments is there is a need to grow beyond where we initially started and that’s a great thing! We should focus on what skills are relevant, and make sure we are delivering what matters to the right skill levels.
I seem to always say this, but I think about my first product management role (don’t EVEN ask how long ago that was). I was eager for information that would help me understand the role – and there was so little information or even people that understood the role. My role had to include education to those I worked with on the role (senior management, development, marketing, sales) as well as developing methodology that never existed as well as managing my products. Although education on product management methodology remains a critical component of the education and skills we deliver, I think we are so very fortunate that we can now network and exchange with others in the industry on real life examples.
Again, thanks Jim for the post and the challenge.
Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? — On Product Management http://bit.ly/mRvWn4
Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? – a new post for #prodmgmt #prodmktg and #leadership to consider. http://wp.me/pXBON-2r3
Does ProductCamp hit the mark?
Now it is time for the totally lame and cheesy quote:
“Don’t ask what your *ProductCamp* can do for you. Ask what you can do for your *Productcamp*.”
ProductCamp Austin exists to create a community for product management and marketing professionals to teach, learn, and network in Austin. We measure our performance against how well we live up to this mission.
ProductCamp is a volunteer driven organization. Nobody gets paid or pre-selected to host a session, because the community decides what they want to see. As Larry McKeogh pointed out, “the onus is on me as an attendee.” (I met Larry at ProductCamp Austin, by the way.) Anyone who complains that certain sessions weren’t offered should be reminded that they have the opportunity to host exactly what they wanted to see, when they participate at the next event (and not just attend). As Steve Robins mentioned earlier, hosting a panel for a topic that you’re interested in is a great way to make this to happen. I have done this a few times at a ProductCamp Austin. For example, when I was interested in a discussion about the differences between ease of use, ease of learning, and speed of use in terms of usability. I hosted a session titled “Usability vs. User Experience – Why is failing on the iPhone more enjoyable than succeeding on a Blackberry?” (http://bit.ly/iBnkpE). I contacted people who previously presented on usability at ProductCamp Austin and asked them to participate on the panel. I’ve done something similar with the product prioritization topic. Not only was the session worthwhile, but I met new people and learned a lot during the planning prior to the event. For me, ProductCamp Austin has totally hit the mark for providing opportunities for me to TEACH and LEARN about product marketing and product management. There are few other opportunities in Austin for me to do this.
As a result of ProductCamp, I’ve made friends with many interesting and smart people that I otherwise would not have met. In fact, I have met many of the people commenting here as a result of ProductCamp. Sure, I could have met some of them through social media, but ProductCamp brings the opportunity to meet people in-person and actually get to know them. To me, participating in ProductCamp increases the value of being part of the Austin community in general. When I go to other social events around Austin, I can count on seeing friends that I’ve met through ProductCamp. When I travel, I try to reach out to ProductCampers and meet for food and drinks. I’ve done this on business trips to Atlanta, Toronto, and Melbourne. For NETWORKING, ProductCamp definitely hits the mark for me.
If you think that the sessions aren’t hitting the mark at the events where you’re participating, then do something about it. If you aren’t the expert, then network to find one and encourage them to host a session. Don’t ask them to present – get them to be on a panel or to host a roundtable discussion. If you’re an expert, don’t think that you have to present on your own (yawn!). Get with other experts and form a panel or host a roundtable or some other new and innovative session type.
Get on the sessions planning team and actively recruit targeted people to host sessions. Create targeted session categories and if there aren’t enough sessions in an important category then send an email out to previous session hosts and registrants to let them know that you need more in that category. At ProductCamp Austin, we provide session categories (http://bit.ly/jUVJru) that focused on product management and product marketing topics. We recently refined them and trimmed the list down to 6 categories that are based on the phases of the product lifecycle. We did this after a recent event seemed to be thin on the more core product management/marketing topics.
I have some thoughts on the changing distribution of generalists vs. enthusiasts/experts as the ProductCamp organizations grow, but I don’t have time to capture them all here. In general, the more focused topics WILL become drowned out by the more general and basic topics as size grows. If you’re hosting a focused higher level topic, then you need to market it better so that it gets more votes. Don’t write a detailed summary that makes it sound boring – write about why somebody should attend rather than what they are going to get out of it. Give it a compelling title. Don’t assume that just because you are a well-known expert that people will vote for you. At the last ProductCamp, about 2/3 of the people said they were at their first ProductCamp. Some of our expert presenters didn’t make the cut because they didn’t do a good enough job marketing their session.
So, if ProductCamp isn’t hitting the mark then we owe it to ourselves to look in the mirror and ask what we can do to make it better. In Austin, we already made a focused effort to “get back to the basics” and at ProductCamp 6, we felt like we hit the mark.
I wonder about the experience of going to ProductCamps in different cities. It would be nice to do this from a broader networking standpoint, but maybe the downside is that you cannot possibly become part of the local community in this way. If you’re looking to make a difference, then you should consider picking a local ProductCamp community and make it yours.
All good points Mike.
Just a quick comment regarding traveling to other ProductCamps, I find it worthwhile because it gives me a different perspective than what I may be seeing locally. It also allows me to meet people in real life vs. social media. Of course, I also have to be able to do it on the cheap as well which is why I won’t be going to any east coast PCamps anytime soon.
I added my thoughts. RT @Jim_Holland: The comments continue – Are Product Camps Missing the Mark http://t.co/wNfqhyJ #prodmgmt #prodmktg #fb
Product camps are great places for networking. Try coming out to product camps in atlanta!
Thanks for a thought-provoking post, Jim! Enjoyed reading the entire thread of comments:)
The one thing that struck me about this year’s SV Product Camp was how much things had changed. We’d become 650+ attendees and counting when a few years ago it was closer to 100. Maybe it’s the sheer volume of folks, but I really missed the unconference and more spontaneous aspects of the years past. As much as there may be value in having consultants and vendors present and pitch their ideas, IMHO having small group discussions and having everyone participate instead of merely listening to a presenter seems much more inherently valuable. In fact, my favorite session of the day was a small group of 8 or 9 discussing “Does Product Management Scale.” It had a lot more of the “Bench Racing” aspect to it (to quote the esteemed Geoffrey Anderson above) and the conversation was engaging and memorable.
At any rate, I look forward to the next evolution of SVPCamp!
RT @RichMironov: RT @onpm: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? #prodmgmt #prodmktg http://bit.ly/jGf992 added my 2c
RT @onpm: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? — On Product Management http://bit.ly/ecgPgI
RT @onpm: Are Product Camps Missing the Mark? — On Product Management http://bit.ly/ecgPgI